this is an incomplete post, but i just need to get this down and i don’t want it to get lost in the 118 drafts.
roissy is good at frame control. he talks about it too.
this was in his latest mailbag:
reader:
what’s the best reply to this shit test:“you just wanna get me drunk so you can take advantage of me.”
I replied with “yeah, i heard you’re easy”
roissy:
Not a good reply. That’s a good way to trigger her anti-slut defenses. Better:
“My advantage… or yours?”
now we can come up with something better than that, right?
i will use this post later today to add more of my EFC rules.
dear GOD alighty you hear this ALL THE TIME in the frech quarter in NO.
answer:
“yup, want another hand grenade”
“is take advantage what say they back in (tex/miss/ala/flor) for having a good time.
“no the drinks are too expensive here, let’s get a beer outside”
“yup, my girls bartending, you don’t stand a chance”
“you mean the rophie HASN’T kicked in yet”- you gotta have BALLS to use this one.
“no, you’re drinking so YOU will sleep with me.”
there’s more, but i’m getting tired. it’s easy picking in the quarter. lol. i’ll tell you ALL about amber when i close her. lol.
yes you are mine now
“easy there tiger”
I think best frame control in this case is to turn her down subtly.
Men playing hard to get is the most frustrating thing for women ever. My husband does it to me.
So say something like, “Is that what you want? I haven’t decided yet.”
Yo-
you’d clean house in the french quarter in new orleans. it’s such easy pickings. lol.
-Men playing hard to get is the most frustrating thing for women ever. “My husband does it to me.”
uuuuuuh. i don’t think this is applicable to married men. lol.
another reason to travel!
Yo-
que divertito hermano. you should go. you’d have a great time.
Just smile, then kiss her.
“Woooaah. You haven’t won me over yet. I’m not that easy.”
Said in a bemused, slightly smirky way.
Usually married men are begging for sex from their wives. It’s rare the other way around.
sorry darling…..i can jerk off and not care. i’m the best that i know. lol.
yeah, flipping the script if fun. calling on her dirty man, putting her as a chaser, or saying you´re still not sure, etc. or you can agree and amplify.
everything and anything, as long as you dont say
“oh no I would never do that!”
hah actually you can say what if you´re being sarcastic
“OH NO I would NEVEER do THAT!” 😉
*dirty mind
“It’s rare the other way around.”
hot.
so you like, get on your knees and beg — or what
danny are you in NO? I’m going to be down there June 2-5 for business…what are some good places?
“You’re projecting again.” With a smirk, of course.
YES
hope’s answer was very good too —
is that what you want?
but i like the projecting cause, if you are using the “i am smarter than you” teasing theme on her — and let’s face it, most men should, since men are smarter than women overall — so if you have that intelligence them going already, you can say,
“are you projecting again?” with a smile
and if she pauses, cause she probably will, cause you nabbed her, cause she wasn’t expecting that answer, she wasn’t expecting you to FLIP THE SCRIPT on her,
you can then say with that fake “cancer victim” sincerity — that oozing, patronizing, condescending grin that DEFINES being a cocky asshole — as if you were talking to your eight year old bratty niece — then you add,
“do you know what projecting means?”
AND THEN SHE IS TOAST
then she will probably say,
YOU’RE SUCH AN ASSHOLE
and punch your arm
AND THEN YOU PASSIONATELY MAKE OUT
this is the #1 best answer to that type of question ALWAYS
just like when crystal said, “i am not going to sit on your lap!”
same exact question
“are you projecting again?”‘
is the ABSOLUTE BEST answer for this ALWAYS
find me a better one
you can’t
see — this is what i mean about that, “dude, there are many possible answers to that scenario” bullshit — that is bullshit
THERE IS ALWAYS A BEST FRAME CONTROL ANSWER
alright no more caps
back to work
i am high on caffeine
and sci fi lullabies
“are you XXX again?” is aggressive and works best when you are putting someone down in front of other people, framing the unwanted as unwanted
in the “getting me drunk” scenario when its the two of you, that edge of aggression is worse than, say, flirting, and I like flirting more for when theres people around too
“yes, you ass is mine now” or “dont know, I havent decided it” more than “you are XXX again”
“you are XXX again” hints that it got under your skin
so while it has a use, its not the “best answer always”
“You’re projecting again”
I’d imagine the word projecting would come across as self-help/pop psychology to many people.
At least outside LA or somewhere like that. Or maybe NY if it is true and not an urban myth that everyone sees shrinks lol.
Anyway, again it’s like the original answer, it’s like an ‘attack’ on the other person, instead of taking the opportunity to have a bit of playful banter between 2 people.
fyi
“are you projecting again?”
is better than
“you are projecting again”
will explain
subtle but huge
answering a question with a question
make it like volleyball, dynamic and more playful and forceful at the same time
answering a question with a statement
come off as defensive, static, flat
exactly
missing an opportunity to increase the playful banter
Riv, you think too much about frame control, whenever you talk about it, you actually lose the good frame control you’re been showing generally.
Also, seems to me you really need to work on your banter. What about this soccer team. Is it a professional team or 5 aside? Do you go out for a beer after with the guys? If not, you need to start. And start socialising with them more. You need some guy friends irl. Ones you can ‘practice’ bantering with lol.
“are you projecting again?”
you are giving attention and focus to an “issue”
rather than reframing this to be about what you really want
so by focusing on it and labeling, you lose frame, not gain it
I get you see it as a defensive counterattack
but the fact that you have to defend, at all, makes you weak
what she did wasnt even a punch. she included the words “me.drunk.take.advantage.yes?”
and you say “are you projecting again?”
you miss the message
in your huna words: give attention to whatever you want to flourish
in this case, what are you giving attention to?
it should be about fucking her, making her want to fuck you
this aint chess. but if you frame it like chess, it becomes chess. which means you win and she loses or the other way around. which means you both lose
“you miss the message”
i have wondered this about you on several occasions — how much interaction have you had with american chicks
i wonder how they differ from argentine girls
cause when you look it roosh’s soul-less eyes
what you are looking at is a man who has been ravaged by american cunts
and not in a good way
you know what i mean?
“missing an opportunity to increase the playful banter”
please someone help me out here
to 99% of american chicks
if she says, are you trying to get me drunk
and you say, absolutely honey, or whatever
SHE WILL BE FREAKED OUT
american girls are way too logical
and too bitchy
anyway, enough on this
some of your points are well taken
“you think too much about frame control”
you are right.
i should just be myself.
I have banged plenty of american of girls to know that Argentinean girls are harder
when a girl says “you are trying to get me drunk to take advantage of me” she is flirting – shes bringing SEX up
if you agree and amplify, she doesnt get freaked out
again you think going direct and bold is what freaks them out, you think that going with a penis freaks them out, so you better hide your penis, right?
its the other way around
“you are trying to get me drunk to take advantage of me?”
– “honey I dont need to get you drunk for that ” 😉
thats all you need. or any of the other 100,000 ways to convey that you are in charge
this “projecting again” bullshit is defensive. it shows you are not in your own shoes
when crystal said “are you getting me drunk”, you responded that you wanted your girls to be non drunk – that was fine
telling her “you are projecting” would have been REALLY weak
Well you do over think it. And when you over think it, it gets to you too much.
“i should just be myself”
I saw recently some of the PUAs are saying that now 🙂 I’ll dig it out for you.
Ok, I found it via memory/google search on VK’s site.
Though for some reason his website isn’t working properly, so I’ve copied/pasted from cache.
Know thyself perception
Roosh and I once joked about game and how the secret to it was to be yourself but for some reason we could never tell that to guys because it’s almost like the highest level of game to master… it’s on that Matrix shit, “there is no spoon”. I’ve tried to explain it before but you should know how you are perceived by women. That is, what type of guy category do women put you in when they first meet or see you?
A lot of guys assume that you have to be arrogant, tough guy, dick head, neg dropping all the time. While this might work for you if you’re a beta or if you’re a guy who comes off looking a little nerdy or wimpy at first glance, this would be counterproductive to my game. I’m a muscular bald headed black guy with scars and tattoos. I’ve got the whole tough guy bad boy image oozing out of every poor of my body like a three day Jack Daniels bender. Acting arrogant or like an extreme dick head would be over kill.
Because of this I’m forced to balance my game out with being extremely polite and nice. When I walk through a crowd and pass attractive girls I make it a point to say excuse me miss. I usually drop a compliment before a neg. When asked what I do I always, ALWAYS pretend to be shy even a little embarrassed before replying “nerdy” financial analyst. For the past eleven years of my life at least four times a week I spend two hours in the gym lifting weights. But when I talk to girls you know what I NEVER bring up doing as a hobby or in my spare time. You guessed it lifting weights. Even when a girl comes up to me feels my biceps and screams in delight how big they are I reflexively tell a joke about doing yoga and pilates I do all this because it goes against my type and how I know “most’ women see me.
Don’t get it twisted, I’ve also used my type and played to my strengths often when it was needed. Do you think I’m acting so humble with an Eastern European chick? Playa please, I simply grunt and mumble, “Me like beer”. The point is I know how I’m perceived so I can react like the water that takes the shape of any container. This brings to the second part
Have any personality
I’m surprised at the guys who go out and act a certain way EVERY night they go out. They’re not comfortable with themselves so they try and pick a persona they think every girl will react to positively.
He’s really a nice guy but every time he goes out he makes it a point to be a dick head. He’s really smart but he goes out and tries to be funny all the time. He’s a natural introvert and every time he goes out he tries to be the center of attention all the time.
Game is really a dance between two people; you can’t tango while she’s doing the electric slide. What I’m saying is play of what girls give you to work with. Wait for her to reveal it to you, most girls will tell you what they want the next guy who sticks his dick in her to be….. YOU CAN BE THAT GUY! But you must be fluid with your character. I often feel like I have multiple personality disorders because I’ve learned to add so many dimensions to who I am.
Put it all together and let them project
I’m not trying to blow Roosh’s spot up here but I’m going to give away one of the most important things he taught me and what I personally believe is one of the key reasons behind his success with women. He has managed to become a “non-type” in DC. The fact that in a crowd you couldn’t point him out and successfully guess or have a clue what he does for a living or what he’s into socially. Because of this fact during conversations a girls hamster will more often than not spin till she projects the “type” of category he fits in.
An example of this was one of the funniest pick up lines that surprisingly had a high return rate. It started out as a joke and a warm up exercise but for a while became the go to pickup line for Roosh. A girl would be walking towards us and he’d simply stop them mid stride and say, “Me and my friend” (pointing to himself and me) and that was it, four fucking words. He would use no follow up dialog or questions just those four words and wait for the girl to make the next move. Some girls would keep walking but a surprisingly high number of girls would stop to figure out what was going on and investigate further. Girls would ask a little confused but now curious, “you and your friend what” or “what about you and your friend”. This accomplished two things. First it got a cute girl to stop while she was headed to another part of the bar or bathroom and second it got her to ask a question about two random guys investing her time and interest in us, almost flipping the switch as if she was hitting on us.
I will admit that I was a hater of this move because it basically made me a prop but at the same time was extremely jealous when it worked because that would mean Roosh had first crack at the girl (he stopped and opened her). This proved to me though that at the highest level you don’t need to fit into a type, all you need to do is give off an interesting vibe and the girl will give you the chance needed to game her. That’s all a type is, just a foot in the door to game, the rest is up to you. Just be yourself
There is no spoon.
“I’ll dig it out for you.”
lily you are driving me crazy again
like with the JA thing
I wasn’t actually telling you to ‘be yourself’, not you as you are now, the poor ladies don’t need that unleashed on them 😉
It’s just this particular topic, whenever you discuss it, you seem to lose the plot. Which is a shame as you are doing so well otherwise.
“just be yourself” is an excellent advice for anyone who is willing to accept that he´s not being himself
“be yourself” is like a homecalling when you are lost. and chances are you are. its been a life of brainwash.
be yourself its not about being what the world made of you, its not about being what you are now, now that you are unhappy
its about breaking everything that´s deviating you and making you unhappy, and going back to your raw true nature at expenses of everything, and rebuilding yourself from there
but most guys/people get the advice as stupidity
“oh, Im shy, worthless and lazy, so I should get results by being lazy?… wait this is not working, I cant just be myself! I gotta be someone else again, this is so unfair! be yourself is bullshit”
YES. be your self. just that you are not there yet.
that’s a good perspective.
Also the “you’re projecting” is too cerebral.
It’s not emotionally in charge enough.
yeah “you´re projecting” counts as a denial, which is the opposite of agree & amplify
she: so you want to have sex with me?
riv: are you projecting again?
vs
she: so you want to have sex with me?
– im already doing you in my mind
– I havent decided it yet. are you a good cook?
– why, are you good at it?
– wow somebody knows how to be subtle!
– hey easy tiger, Im not that easy
– it looks like it doesnt it
– sex is in your mind too eh? great minds think alike
– hey NO I would NEVER do THAT 😉
– a nice guy would say no to that question. Im not that nice.
etc. its up to your mood entirely
“It’s not emotionally in charge enough.”
i refuse to debate this any longer.
this will be my last comment
🙂
american girl: you just ordered me another drink, are you trying to take advantage of me??
american guy: i’m already doing you in my mind
this reminds me of the apocalyptic opener.
either it works 10000%
and you fuck her in the bar bathroom
or you get blown out
“you just ordered me another drink”
why would you be ordering her a second drink?
“or you get blown out”
what does this mean?
Here it means, hmm, I suppose closest is ‘flaked on’. You could say ‘she blew me out’.
Is this what you mean? Or do you mean
like getting a blow job?
I thought blow out meant blow dry (for hair), that’s the only reason I’m asking.
Means she rejects him no ifs and or buts, probably in a less than gentle way.
what’s your email. i can talk to you offliine.
or…..RIV, give ASF my email please.
Yo, newbie to the manosphere and recovering beta here, also just learning game
How about: “Nah, i don’t do that on ” place current day of the week here.
Thoughts?
yalejathotmail
Popping in late, but saying she’s projecting is insulting in a negative way. A very “Ok, tool, I am suddenly way less turned on by you” way.
Just thought of another variation:
“Nah, i don’t have to get you drunk to do that”
” “or you get blown out”
what does this mean?”
getting blown out of a sudden is losing the set, big time
it means failure
just emailed you.
” How about: “Nah, i don’t do that on ” place current day of the week here.”
that is you taking her question seriously, and answering it.
that is jumping into her frame.
read my EFC posts. type EFC in the search bar.
“why would you be ordering her a second drink?”
damn, if she shit tested me AGAIN that strongly, i would call her bluff like i did with crystal:
yeah, you’re right. your meter is running. you better go.
“I’m surprised at the guys who go out and act a certain way EVERY night they go out. They’re not comfortable with themselves so they try and pick a persona they think every girl will react to positively.”
this entire post is the best thing i’ve ever read from a woman. EVER. your man is a lucky fellah. you my dear, are a gem. i LOATHE game b/c i’m not myself when i use it. but i do like knowing it to navigate my relationships. if i EVER close using game, i feel lesser of myself as a man, yeah…..i got laid. but i don’t feel righteuous about the fuck.
indeed, there is no spoon.
“I have banged plenty of american of girls to know that Argentinean girls are harder
when a girl says “you are trying to get me drunk to take advantage of me” she is flirting – shes bringing SEX up
if you agree and amplify, she doesnt get freaked out
again you think going direct and bold is what freaks them out, you think that going with a penis freaks them out, so you better hide your penis, right?
its the other way around
“you are trying to get me drunk to take advantage of me?”
– “honey I dont need to get you drunk for that ” 😉
thats all you need. or any of the other 100,000 ways to convey that you are in charge
this “projecting again” bullshit is defensive. it shows you are not in your own shoes”
i missed this before
just read it now
“are you trying to get me drunk?”
” i don’t need to get you drunk”
that is HUGE. honestly, i love that answer. but again — who the fuck can pull that off. clearly you can.
i know then we go back to all that inner game stuff which is so important, but telling a newbie — or me, not a newbie but not an alpha — to reply “i don’t need to get you drunk”, when i have fucked two girls in one year, DAMN, that is SO HARD.
again, this is reminding me more and more of the apocalyptic opener.
would you recommend that a newbie go try that out on a girl?
a guy goes out and does the AO 10x and that can fuck with his head.
i’m just saying, growth takes time. this shock to the system strategy — i don’t know.
maybe i am just being timid.
lily, thanks for posting this. it almost made the front page. it is somewhat useful but also really annoying.
this is VK who wrote this, right?
so this dude is a tall, black, muscular dude with scars. he has devoted a lot of time going to the gym, so he has built up value that way.
and he is BIG and BLACK.
that motherfucker BETTER be polite. he has no choice.
but then when it suits him, he is more primal.
sure.
whatever.
and he is saying that he hates the dudes that have some sort of shtick to meet girls. and yet he hangs out with roosh, who has the i hate girls shtick.
and his shtick — polite or not — is that he is a big, muscular black dude. he can’t get away from that.
he is not making sense.
he is just speaking in platitudes — to use a word that i learned in the last presidential election.
again, i love inner game, inner game is 90% of game, but jesus fucking christ,
PUSH PULL
FRAME CONTROL
BEING AWARE OF YOUR BODY LANGUAGE
PEACOCKING WITH CERTAIN ITEMS
BOUNCING A GIRL FROM ONE LOCATION TO ANOTHER
USING FALSE DISQUALIFIERS
USING FALSE TIME CONSTRAINTS
KNOWING HOW TO AMOG
KNOWING HOW TO IDENTIFY AND PASS SHIT TESTS
SPEAKING SLOWLY
these are all specific, tangible, “outer game” tips that any and every guy can put into effect RIGHT NOW and which would help him immeasurably to become more attractive to girls.
but honestly — what would you know about that? what do you know about being a man? all you know is what you find attractive. just like that dude’s high school sister. no girl wants to be behind the scenes looking at all the work that is being done before the show. she wants to see the show and be entertained.
i am sure you fucked guys who worked really hard at trying to fuck you, but made it seem effortless to you.
and if you had read their blogs you would have advised them, just be yourself!, i am sure she will like you just for you.
every day i think more about what yohami said — the feminine just wants magical things to happen to her.